PAP: Do we know for how long humanity has been using psychedelic drugs?

Professor Michał Bola: It seems that it has been happening since the beginning of our civilization. According to anthropologists, there is evidence that psychedelics were used in many different cultures, mainly in ceremonial, shamanic and medicinal contexts. Substances such as psilocybin or DMT that occurs in ayahuasca, which is a traditional ceremonial brew consumed by the inhabitants of the Amazon Forest - were once considered sacred and surrounded by cult.

PAP: Nowadays, psychedelics have become relaxation stimulants.

M.B.: I am not sure whether the idea of using psychedelic substances has actually changed over time, or rather their perception by people who have no contact with them has changed. In the 1960s, psychedelics, especially LSD, invented in the late 1930s, gained enormous popularity in counter-cultural circles. Perhaps for this reason, these substances were later viewed by the general public as party drugs. In turn, in the 1980s, during the war on drugs launched in the USA, psychedelics began to be perceived as dangerous drugs. However, in recent years, a change in the narrative around psychedelics has been observed. Thanks to scientific research conducted in recent years, among other things, their potentially beneficial impact is being discussed again.

PAP: You must have heard about the 'stoned ape' theory.

M.B.: In a nutshell, this theory says that thanks to the fact that our distant ancestors consumed psychedelic substances, e.g. in the form of mushrooms, they developed their cognitive abilities and self-awareness in leaps and bounds.

I'm sceptical about this. Perhaps some anthropologists would disagree, but I believe that this theory does not have a strong scientific basis, for example in the field of psychology or neuroscience.

As an evolutionist, I assume that we acquired cognitive abilities and self-awareness through adaptive processes. From this perspective, I see no way that consuming hallucinogens could translate into an evolutionary process. Even if some ancestors experimented with these substances and experienced psychedelic states, I highly doubt that this would translate into the development of cognitive abilities and self-awareness, and especially that these abilities could be maintained throughout the population.

PAP: You do study the brains of people who take psychedelics. For what purpose?

M.B.: These substances have a long history, but the last decades when they were studied were the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. Later, the research was abandoned, and even banned in some countries. In recent years, we have seen an abundance of them again - a lot of basic and clinical research has appeared - the usefulness of these substances in the treatment of depression and anxiety disorders is being investigated.

Our research is slightly different - on large groups of people who take psychedelics on their own, we try to assess the relationship between their use and cognitive processes and neuronal and brain processes. Another very interesting issue is the impact of taking psychedelics on the perception of social and emotional stimuli. We also check whether there are any parallels between the results of our research and those in which these substances were administered to subjects under the supervision of therapists during the experiment, because those studies showed positive effects of their use on mental health.

PAP: How large is the group of subjects and how did you recruit them? Were they not afraid that it was some kind of police entrapment?

M.B.: The research is anonymous, we do not collect personal data. Over 3,500 people registered for the first questionnaire survey, which we conducted in 2020. All of them completed the online survey, which took about 45 minutes, so it required some dedication. We asked about certain demographic data, the history of using various psychoactive substances, frequency, doses, and subjective feelings after taking them, with particular emphasis on psychedelics. There were also psychological questionnaires - we were interested in the extent to which the use of various types of substances was related to psychological variables, i.e. emotions and self-awareness.

PAP: From the description of this study, I concluded that people taking psychedelics are more 'chill'.

M.B.: You could put it this way. Our results indicate that psychedelic use is associated with more positive emotional reactivity. And vice versa: the more of these substances a person took, the lower was the negative reactivity, i.e. the strength of reaction to negative stimuli.

However, these are correlational studies, so we cannot firmly state that it is psychedelics that cause these changes or that users of psychedelics have higher positive emotional reactivity.

PAP: How does this positive reactivity manifest itself?

M.B.: With a stronger and more long-lasting affect, i.e. a reaction to positive stimuli, while negative reactivity is a stronger and more long-lasting affect to negative stimuli. For example, we asked that if something positive/negative happens, how long does a person think about it, i.e. how long does a person remain under the influence of these events?

We also investigated those aspects that are related to self-awareness. The first, negative one, regarding public self-awareness, is related to how much we look at ourselves through the eyes of others, how sensitive we are to other people's judgment or assessment. The second, positive one is about self-awareness of your feelings and emotions, i.e. the internal one. It turns out that taking psychedelics is associated with lower external self-awareness and higher internal self-awareness.

The same survey also included questions about practicing meditation. It turned out that meditating has an almost identical effect on the issues we research as psychedelic substances. In people who meditated, the internal self-awareness of thoughts and feelings was increased compared to those who did not meditate. This thread - the similarity of the effects of meditation and psychedelics appears in the conclusions of many studies.

PAP: Have you examined the brains of users of psychedelics at the neuronal level?

M.B.: Yes, in the second stage of the project we invited some of the people who completed the survey to the laboratory, where we subjected two groups to EEG tests - users (over 15 doses) and a control group, each of which included over 50 people. We presented positive and negative stimuli alternately - faces expressing different emotions - joy, fear, anger, some were neutral.

When we compared brain reactivity, we found that psychedelic drug users were less reactive to fear, but we found no differences when it came to other emotions. Now we are starting a new recruitment process and at the Centre for Brain Research of the Jagiellonian University we will conduct a study using magnetic resonance imaging, which will enable more accurate imaging of brain activation.

PAP: What are these studies expected to prove?

M.B.: On the one hand, there is a clinical context: these substances are being tested for their potential use in therapy. Our results indicate that the unsupervised use of psychedelics may also be associated with mental well-being - this complements clinical research. It is also a step towards busting the myth of these substances as evil incarnate. Of course, this does not mean that they always have a positive effect. It is best if they are taken in a therapeutic context, under the supervision of a qualified specialist, because the risk of doing it on your own is high. But it is worth thinking about them as something that can be used for good to help people who have mental problems.

PAP: Just like in the case of marijuana?

M.B.: There is an analogy here, but psychedelics may have stronger effects. Therefore, you should not take them recreationally, at a party, because a friend gave you some. However, it should go in a similar direction: decriminalisation and using their good aspects. However, I would like to cool down the enthusiasm - when it comes to scientific research, not only my team, but the scientific world in general is at the very beginning. The first results are promising, so it is worth continuing this research.

Interview by Mira Suchodolska (PAP)

mir/ jann/ lm/ kap/

tr. RL